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September 10, 2009

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jim janknegt

I have affection for some of the ID guys, particularly, Michael Behee. I have read a couple of his books and find them compelling. He is a Catholic and used to be a Darwinist until he felt like the evidence just wasn't adding up. Here is a good interview with him that gives you a feel for what he is up to: http://exposureroom.com/members/TheAllenFactor.aspx/videos/

Sleeping Beastly

I think the ID objections are worth paying attention to; I just don't think they amount to a scientific theory, or even an hypothesis. As far as I can tell, they're nothing more than a serious criticism of prevailing evolutionary beliefs. (I hesitate to even call most evolutionary models "theories" because as far as I can tell, there has been no observed speciation in nature, let alone in a laboratory.)

Basically, you have mainstream biologists saying "This is how things appear to have happened," to which the ID guys are saying, "That idea seems insufficient to explain these details."

To which, of course, mainstream biologists tend to answer "Shut up!"

Tim J.

"I think the ID objections are worth paying attention to; I just don't think they amount to a scientific theory, or even an hypothesis. As far as I can tell, they're nothing more than a serious criticism of prevailing evolutionary beliefs. "

That's how it seems to me, too, though I admit to not being widely read on the subject.

Thanks for your link, Jim. I would like to be more familiar with the material, and hope to be able to look that over soon.

Sleeping Beastly

As for why a work of art can have meaning, but the universe cannot, I think it pretty much boils down to cosmology. Meaning does not happen by accident; it requires an originating intelligence (to intend the meaning) and a terminating intelligence (to be the intended recipient of the meaning.)

For an atheist, the only meaning is that created by humans (and, possibly, any other intelligent life forms brought about by random chance in the universe.) The universe itself *cannot* have any meaning for an atheist, since that would imply an intelligent creator, which would, by definition, be God.

Life itself can have meaning for an atheist, since he can ascribe his own meaning to it, and participates somewhat in how he lives it. But such meaning must be a bit like playing chess against oneself. The game will always go exactly the way you want it to, but it's hard to see why you or anyone else would care.

Michael

I believe that it was John Paul II who pointed out that postulating that God is detectable by science lowers God to the level of things which science can legitimately study, that is, the level of natural material things. As such the ID attempt to prove God by science is doomed to fail.

That being said, the thing that gives me pause is that it is at least theoretically possible that life, in its entirety or in particulars, was miraculously created (natural or miraculous generation of natural life both seem to be possible in Catholic thought) and consists of structures and mechanisms that cannot develop naturally. Can science detect that, or not? That's where I'm still working out my opinion of ID.

Del

I'm just glad that you are having fun with the guys at Christianpipesmokers.net !

They really are foxhole buddies.

Neill

My comments are about your painting which I find beautiful. Not sure what you sold it for, but I sure would like something like it.

On another subject, I'm a member of The Ozark Pipe Smokers and come to meetings once in awhile when I'm in town. I'm not sure if we've met, but if we happen across each other at some point, please introduce yourself.

Great work.

Tim Jones

Thanks, Neill. I really need to do some more pipe and tobacco paintings. I'm in Minneapolis now, but will still be down that way now and then. Cheers!

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